# “The Way of the Master” refutes Rob Bell
(Update: There’s More! Check out the full clip. Part 1 and Part 2 on YouTube.com)
This is quite possibly the lamest ten minutes in the history of film. Basically, this clip is a guy from Kirk Cameron’s “The Way of the Master” ministry doing some kind of spoof on Rob Bell’s “Bullhorn” Nooma video. If you’ve seen this edition of the Nooma series, then you’ll recognize fully how lame and silly this whole spoof is. Also, if you watch long enough, you’ll see how this guy is totally successfull at creeping out total strangers on the street and in the process, completely validating Bell’s concern that he shares in “Bullhorn”.
I think there is a longer post brewing in me somewhere but first I’ll have to clean the puke off my laptop.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:22 am
Do you think they really have “all you can eat frozen custard” at that hospital? I like frozen custard.
Creepy. Truly creepy. Interesting that the way to the cure come from “Dr. Reason.” Talk about being captive to modernity.
October 27th, 2006 at 8:09 am
he forgot to talk about me, dr. rip off. i take other people’s already published ideas and tweak them just a tad so as to not get sued. then i tell people that they’re sinners, dying, and then i actually take them and throw them off the cliff myself.
October 27th, 2006 at 8:42 am
WHAT?!? Noooo…. He didn’t “pray the prayer” with those four guys. He totally showed them the cliff and then let them keep walking right off. That’s not being a good doctor. You’ve got to nail them when you’ve got them captive and nodding in agreement with you. You gotta get them to say it or it doesn’t work. I was ready to see some salvation happen at the end of that video. Maybe he was just planting seeds that day. [with much sarcasm]
October 27th, 2006 at 10:15 am
That was truly disturbing on so many levels. Fascinating that the Ten Commandments is used for perfection [not to mention that he misinterpreted about half of them], saying that no one can keep them… and yet Paul says that in regards to the keeping the Law he was blameless. Now how does that work, Mr Reason? Geez. What a sad little man.
October 27th, 2006 at 11:33 am
When he was pretending to be Dr. Love, that was wrong on so many accounts. I can see Rob Bell walking around Grand Rapids on the street, asking people he doesn’t know how they are doing and if there’s anything he can do for them.
This guy totally misses the point. And he freaking sounds like a Game Show Host or Announcer.
October 27th, 2006 at 12:21 pm
Ah crap Zach, I totally agree with you, just wish you hadn’t put the video on here…there’s 10 minutes of my life I want back. A friend “shared” Way of the Master with me a few months ago, and it all just really ticked me off. If you want to see something interesting, go to their website (livingwaters.com I think?) and watch their “Hell’s best kept secret” video. They actually instruct people at the end to “go out and find a sinner today and experiment”.
Last time I checked we were all sinners.
October 27th, 2006 at 2:52 pm
ahhhhhahhahaahaha… “Christian Malpractice” hahaha… “Dr. Reason has good bedside-manner” hahaha… “Dood, come over here. Dood, what’s your name? I want you to know that I’m a very caring person” hahaha!! Wow, this SNL skit rivals the Celebrity Jeopardy days! What’s that?…this isn’t SNL?? This is TBN???!!
::buries face in hands::
October 27th, 2006 at 5:35 pm
Long time reader. First time poster.
I saw this video a few weeks ago. Hilarious.
I love how he tries to be really Relevant by drinking coffee and calling people “dude.”
October 27th, 2006 at 5:45 pm
so I’m shaking off the blank stare, picking my jaw up from off my desk and trying to figure out what the heck that was. how in the world did that one slip past anyone’s editing staff? i just didn’t think that even “TWOTM” was that bad- but apparently they are. and what the crap was that whole last minute of king james jargon? was it actually king james speaking? martin luther? that was terrible.
but, then again i guess that’s what real ministry’s all about- ya know, making people feel akward and agitated, making fun of other “liberal christians” to prove a point and puff up our pride, wearing catchy t-shirts with mock-hip logos to communicate “his pain, your gain” or any acrostic that matches up with “C.O.P.S.- whacha gonna do when he comes for you?!”, loud bumper stickers that have to do with the vehicle being unmanned in case of rapture, oh and of course, don’t forget “winning souls”.
that’s how i came to know the lord. through bumper-sticker evangelism and some guy who randomly stopped me on the street and told me how cruddy i was and that i was bound for hell. in fact, i was “trembling” i was so scared. (hope your catching the heavy sarcasm).
this is exactly why christians bug me- and i’m a pastor.
October 27th, 2006 at 7:36 pm
I am not sure what to think of this…
I want to try and be compassionate and open to his point of view but he comes across as so arrogant.
And if he was a “real” evangelist he would have had them all pray the sinners prayer
October 28th, 2006 at 12:02 am
The Way of the Master refutes Rob Bell…
This is quite possibly the lamest ten minutes in the history of film. Basically, this clip is a guy from Kirk Camerons The Way of the Master ministry doing some kind of spoof on Rob Bells Bullhorn Nooma video….
October 28th, 2006 at 12:02 am
sigh
October 28th, 2006 at 12:40 pm
As usual, why spend time loving, integrating into, living in a manner where the Kingdom is incarnated in our lives…when we can spend our time shooting at the other “believers” who don’t believe and do what “we” do. What a shame…another tragedy that underscores the fact that so much of contemporary Christianity is completely bankrupt.
October 28th, 2006 at 4:50 pm
I cannot believe that this was even made. It makes me want to write the people that make The Way of The Master material and beg them to stop calling themselves Christians. I wanted to vomit as I watched it. He might as well stopped calling Rob Bell “Dr. Love” and just called him out if he was going to - at least have some integrity and shoot straight. Again this will be watched by tens of people and they will continue to be “bullhorn guy” and “bullhorn girl” and do more damage in the name of Jesus. At least hopefully people will see through them and pick up a NOOMA DVD or listen to a podcast of Mars Hill in Michigan, Imago Dei in Portland or Mosaic in Los Angeles. Rob Bell, Rick McKinley and Erwin McManus are some of the godliest men I know. (I went to school with Rick and was mentored by Rob). I hope these videos just go away so that people are not “scared” into the kingdom of God.
~ Matt Nash
Bible teacher at Tri-City Christian High
Vista, CA
October 28th, 2006 at 4:52 pm
In case my sarcasm was too subtle to pick up
“Dr. Lame” - is code for the guy talking in this video.
I am tired of people slamming Rob Bell and others who are trying to reach those far from God in fresh, innovative ways.
October 28th, 2006 at 11:41 pm
At first I wanted to slam the guy and join in the fracas here.
But then I was convicted… Frankly, the dude has shared the gospel in that video more times than I have in the past several months at least on a person-to-person basis. Albeit, the way he shared it is not my style, he has shared the gospel…
I don’t know, maybe I’m thinking crazy…
October 29th, 2006 at 2:52 am
I guess it depends on whether or not you feel this man actually shared “the gospel” or not. I for one don’t think so. If THAT’S the gospel, then I’m proud to say I’ve never shared it.
October 29th, 2006 at 9:52 am
Zach,
Greg Boyd has some interesting insights into the “way of the master” way of “sharing” the gospel. He points out that they have read the gospel accounts of John the Baptist as a way to reach the “lost.” That is, go into the world and prophesy repent and turn from your wicked ways. The problem with that “method” is that John the Baptist was not a prophet to the gentile world. He was a prophet to the Jewish world. Again, that is, from within. Going to a gentile and confronting them with the Ten Commandments is like confronting someone with a code in a foreign language. We, in the United States are not asked to live by the Ten Commandments. We live by a different law. And, as Christians, we don’t even live by the Ten Commandments. We are under a different law. So, going up to people on the street and telling them they are going to hell if they don’t accept is assanine. It is not the model Jesus, Paul, or any of the other prophets set forth in scripture. The point this guy makes that JEsus talks about hell in 13% of scripture is pointless, because when Jesus was doing that, he was typically talking to the Pharisees and his point was not to SCARE the gentile into HEAVEN. Which, is ROB BELL’s point! And, Dude, what percentage of scripture is LOVE talked about? Faith, Hope, and Love, the most important of these is love! That is the gospel my friend. As Greg Boyd puts it Calvary Love. Kingdom Under Love. That is the example Jesus sets. Not a fear based, scare them out of hell and into heaven gospel message.
October 29th, 2006 at 10:08 am
this is just one more reason why I hate to call myself a christian.
the hypocrisy is simply amazing. It seems a bit scary, it seems like “lines” are starting to be drawn and “stances” are becoming more of a reality within the evangelical landscape.
this can’t be healthy for the church.
God have mercy!!!
October 29th, 2006 at 11:01 am
This is awful.
I’m annoyed with him.
October 29th, 2006 at 10:44 pm
so, apparently the “way of the master” group isn’t even attempting to say that the video is not a direct call-out on rob bell
click here
October 30th, 2006 at 12:06 am
Frankly, I’m a little concerned about people here who want to baldly slam this guy for his approach. You may disagree with him but that doesn’t make your approach any more effective or right. As to the law, we are still measured by it my friends. Scripture tells us so….
“Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.”
(Romans 3:31 NLT)
…Our Savior adds this:
“So if you break the smallest commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be great in the Kingdom of Heaven.”
(Matthew 5:19 NLT)
The concept from “Way of the Master” was simply to show people that we are missing the mark as far as God’s standard is concerned. God didn’t summarily drop his standard for people from Old Testament to New. He provided a way out of the judgement that the LAW commands through Jesus. That was what he meant by fulfillment of the law. The Law is not null and void; it’s still in full force for those who choose to live without Christ. Again, let’s go to the Bible:
“For all have sinned; all fall short of God’s glorious standard.”
(Romans 3:23 NLT)
The standard of what? The LAW. Oh and what’s the payment for failure to live up to that standard?
“For the wages of sin is death…”
(Romans 6:23a NLT)
Ahh but here’s the best part….
“…but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.”
(Romans 6:23b NLT)
That’s why the LAW is still there and still very much alive folks. It’s all in God’s Word if we choose to accept it.
I’m not knocking Rob Bell. I’ve enjoyed some of his NOOMA videos when I’ve had the chance to watch them but the church is suffering because too many people don’t even know they are sick with sin and there are many preachers (or “Teaching Pastors” as the buzzwords apply) who do not want even want to get close to this for fear we might “creep” somebody out and chase them away from church.
Now before you judge, I’m not an independent fundy as some might suspect but I also realize that if the church is going to survive another generation, we had better get a handle on the fact that we still need to preach about sin, about its consequences, and about the savior just as Paul did, Just as Timothy did, and just as Peter did or we may as well throw in the towel with our coffee bars and McDonald playlands because the church will have lost her influence to a people who need to hear about the grace, love, and mercy of Christ.
October 30th, 2006 at 10:23 am
Scott, I’m not sure anyone here is saying we don’t need the Law.
October 30th, 2006 at 11:43 am
zach, i don’t think that scott is saying that anyone here is saying we don’t need the law. what he is saying is that people rarely address the fact that we are judged by the law, and we are all left wanting.
i’m not all about the way of the master. to be honest, i can’t stand that ray comfort/kirk cameron stuff. however, the truth is that many today, when speaking about the gospel, fail to talk about judgment and sin. these are big parts of understanding redemption. we certainly shouldn’t talk about it to simply scare someone into salvation.
however, talking about these things (when there is an adequate opportunity, not quite stopping someone on the street to do it, you know) can and does put life in perspective. it also helps bring someone to crisis, leaving them on the precipice of decision. i’m not talking about a decision like walking the aisle praying the prayer, either. i’m talking about real decision where action and consequences follow. you know, it’s about an existential encounter with eternity. as i usually say here, kierkegaard has good things to say about bringing one to a moment of decision (crisis). also, paschal hits on stuff like that.
i’m not saying that we should be needlessly confrontational and hostile. i’m also not saying that judgment, sin, and wrath should be brought up in conversation all of the time. that would be stupid and downright unchristian. however, people today don’t want to induce conflict if they can help it at all (i know, i’m like that, too). and, of course, law and judgment are about as confrontational as it gets when talking about aspects of the euangelion (the gospel). people want to be nonconfrontational at all costs. that is just as wrong.
conflict is implicit in the gospel, and whenever the gospel is proclaimed (in word AND deed), conflict will arise. not because christians are being stupid (though there is often needless conflict and confrontation because of this), but because people have to see themselves as they are and then they are faced with a decision to proceed in truth with real action, or to cower in fear and run from reality.
certainly, you don’t want to go up to someone and say, “you’re a sinner, you’re going to hell” whether or not you know the person. however, if you are proclaiming the gospel, whether in speech or action, then these topics are inevitable because they are implicit. there is no avoiding it. we can’t just say, “i don’t want to talk about judgment and wrath, because that doesn’t work. it only scares people away.”
judgment and wrath are always there; people spend their lives toiling in meaningless sensuous experiences to escape the cloud of judgment and wrath that they see looming over their heads. obviously, ONLY talking about sin, wrath, yadda yadda will scare people away. they will never embrace the gospel. the thing is, NEVER talking sin, wrath, yadda yadda will keep them from running away while also keeping them from running to jesus.
vaguely echoing ecclesiastes, there is a time for talking about sin and judgment. there is a time for not talking about it, as well.
October 30th, 2006 at 11:50 am
Zach,
Jason Smith, in his reply to you said quote:
“We live by a different law. And, as Christians, we don’t even live by the Ten Commandments. We are under a different law. So, going up to people on the street and telling them they are going to hell if they don’t accept is assanine. It is not the model Jesus, Paul, or any of the other prophets set forth in scripture.”
We ARE NOT under a different law. The same God has the same the standard as before. The difference is that Jesus came to be a propitiation for our sins. Because of satisfying God’s requirement for our sin, all who truly accept him as Savior will be forgiven. I’m not being a “bible thumper” about this but to say that’s not the gospel as you have shared it (which was from your own comment) is terribly wrong. Now I know you were addressing his METHOD but face it, at some point, an unregenerate person has to be confronted with the fact they are lost. How they get to that point can be a matter of debate from a lot of folks. Again, I mentioned that I’ve enjoyed some of the Nooma videos I’ve seen so I’m not knocking Rob Bell but I also have watched Ray Comfort’s (Way of the Master) presentation of “Hell’s Best Kept Secret” (I also have read the book) and there’s nothing in there that would have me say: “Boy, I’m glad I don’t evangelize THAT way!”.
People need to know they’re sick to appreciate the cure. It’s a great metaphor that Friel uses here but it’s appropriate. Just as Bell’s proponents want to be the first to jump all over somebody who even remotely criticizes him, it’s not fair for those same folks to have a double standard and make snide comments about this guy sharing the truth of the gospel in the way he does.
October 30th, 2006 at 11:53 am
Sean,
Excellent thoughts!
October 30th, 2006 at 12:17 pm
I think there’s something to be said for the idea that the Method IS the Message. All this talk is about intellectual ascent. the talk is so noisy that I can’t hear about how we are to care for the widow, ophans, and strangers in our midst. As far as the Way of the Master is concerned, the Sermon on the Mount has been totally erased from the scriptures, but that’s ok because they have an online store!
I appreciate your points of view (Scott and Sean) and I’ll hopefully put together more of my thoughts in a future post. Thanks for everyone’s comments.
October 30th, 2006 at 2:35 pm
Zach,
We sometimes confuse the grace spoken of in the sermon on the mount as being a substitute for judgement. In the very message you quote, Jesus mentions the Law and how He is there to fulfill it, NOT abolish it. And if all that was required to enter heaven was good works, would not men purchase their salvation through their effort and negate the sacrifice of Christ?
“We are all infected and impure with sin. When we proudly display our righteous deeds, we find they are but filthy rags. Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall. And our sins, like the wind, sweep us away.”
(Isaiah 64:6 NLT)
It’s not noisy talk. It’s truth, plain and simple. Once the heart is redeemed, those wonderful works you mention follow from a heart overflowing with thanksgiving and praise for the one who died for my sins. That’s the fruit of the spirit mentioned in Galations 5 my friend!
As for online stores, Rob Bell doesn’t allow anyone to download the “bullhorn man” unless they pay him $10 for the video clip. And last night as I was enjoying a cup of holiday blend coffee at my local Borders book store, I noticed Velvet Elvis had a price attached to it and was not free!
October 30th, 2006 at 3:32 pm
Are you suggesting that I’m confusing grace as a substitute for judgement? Are you suggesting I’ve proposed that all you need are good deeds? Are you suggesting that I’m “proudly displaying” my rightous deeds? Are you reading my mind or are you simply putting words in my mouth?
Bell does sell books and dvds (content) but he doesn’t try to sell T-Shirts and worthless nick nacks. Nothing says you love Jesus more than rolling around in your The Way of the Master golf shirt.
October 30th, 2006 at 3:43 pm
Hey Gang…
Not to nit pick, but…
Romans 3.23 does not use the term “standard” as the NLT uses. It specifically uses the term “glory” or doxa, which refers to “appearance, reputation, or honor”. Hence the sense that Romans 3.23 is bringing out is that the entirety of humanity has failed to live up to God’s reputation, or better yet that humanity has failed to be and do what God intended for us to be and do.
Could this include the Law, sure… but it does not in fact have to be merely the Law - the statement is about something so much larger.
I think we need to be careful, especially since we do encounter places where Paul mentions that in regards to righteouseness based upon the Law he calls himself “faultless” [Philippians 3.6] - not to mention the places where Paul speaks of a rightouesness of the Law and where Jesus says that he came to “fulfuill” or “uphold” the Law.
All this to say that the case with the Law is so much more complex that merely God gave it, we broke it, that settles it. The Law was the way in which the people of God, invited by grace, lived in harmony with God. It was not a standard for salvation. It was purely and simply the way in which the people of God would live in covenant with God. This is most clearly seen in that the people of God did indeed have a way of atoning for their breaking of the Law through the sacrificial system, being made righteous before their God once again.
Thanks for the interlude.
And now back to our conversation…
October 30th, 2006 at 7:13 pm
Ever read Paul’s sermon on Mars Hill? It gives an idea how he communicated with a non-Christian audience.
He complimented them for their spiritual curiosity — he didn’t blast them for being wrong.
He quoted one of their philosopher/poets, indicating that the (non-Christian) poet had spoken spiritual truth.
He didn’t pound them up with statements like “you are lost, you are separated from God” — in fact, he said “God is not far from each of us” and he told them that God wanted all people to reach out to him.
I think that’s the best way to describe sharing the gospel: encouraging people to reach out to the God who is not far from each of us.
October 30th, 2006 at 7:35 pm
Zach,
I never once put words in your mouth nor suggested you personally were “substituting” anything. I was responding to a portion of your post:
“….All this talk is about intellectual ascent. the talk is so noisy that I can’t hear about how we are to care for the widow, ophans, and strangers in our midst. As far as the Way of the Master is concerned, the Sermon on the Mount has been totally erased from the scriptures…”
As pastors, we have to be careful not to give “false” assurances to our members simply by telling them about how to care for the widow, orphans, etc.. Your point was simply that in your opinion, “Way of the Master” is all about the method and not about the action. I merely suggested that to spend all our time in the “good works” area that many pastors seem to want to do today will leave us with spiritually emaciated folks who think they are saved when in reality, they’ve never been confronted about their sin because that would be offensive. If there’s no repentence, there’s no salvation. Jesus shed his blood for nothing then.
As for “doxa”, it’s still the fact that we’ve fallen short. Of What? God’s expectation of us. The verses following that quote put the scripture into context. We’ve missed the mark and only through the propitiation of Jesus’ sacrifice can we be redeemed. (Romans 3:24-25). If we never talk about that and just hope that somebody will fall into it, we are deceiving ourselves.
…and nobody’s saying here that we “pound them up” to save them. Simply put, we have to find a way to confront the issue of sin and pending judgment in a person’s life in order for there to be true salvation. How that happens is where the real discussion should be.
October 30th, 2006 at 8:18 pm
Which pastors are you referring too who spend all their time addressing “good works”?
So in your view, what does repentence entail if it is not shown through our actions? Is it merely an acknowledgement in our minds that we do bad things and and that we should no longer want to do bad things?
In my view, caring for the “least of these” is a direct confrontation of my sin. My greed, my selfishness, many of my shortcomings are exposed when I put myself in a context of trying to help others who are suffering. If being more interested in serving the “least of these” while not being concerned with Kirk Cameron’s idea of “salvation” makes me “spiritually emaciated”, then spritually emaciated I’ll gladly be.
November 1st, 2006 at 3:19 pm
Zach,
Thanks for putting us all onto this. I almost cried I was laughing so much. I haven’t read all the other posts, just some, but my question is why would they spend so much time, $$$, energy on this if they really believe what they’re doing is correct. Simply incredible. Adios.
November 2nd, 2006 at 12:01 pm
Snakes in the Pew…
Too often the work of communicating the message of the church is ruined because of the people in the church. Dr. Ergun Caner shared the message “Snakes in the Pew” (that’s the direct link to the file, you can also see find it listed here, link via T…
November 2nd, 2006 at 3:28 pm
zach, i’m not talking methodology. i’m talking action. that’s all there is to it. when i talked about bringing someone to crisis, about kierkegaard, about sin, i wasn’t talking about these things to hear my gums flap. these are things that only make sense, only work, when action is directly involved. one of the points i’ve made before is that when our life is lived as one who has been called by christ, then those around us see that. and when they do see it, they are forced to confront their own sinfulness, just as we are forced to confront ours when we must continually choose sacrifice over selfishness. this is also part of what i was talking about in my earlier comment.
israel was called to action not to help people or love people first and foremost. it was called to action by YHWH to show that he was god. israel stood in the midst of the world, proclaiming the lord to be real not in their prayers and midrash, but in their actions. and this is also the job of the church. we are to live out the kingdom of god. we are here to show the world that god’s kingdom is counterintuitive. we are supposed to be modeling an ethic that transcends (even reverses) the ethics of the world. and, you know what, sometimes that will include talking about things. there is no orthopraxy (right action) without orthodoxy (right thought).
also, as i said, there is a time for talking judgment and sin with someone. a TIME. that implies that only certain circumstances and situations are appropriate. it seems that most people assume that if sin is ever going to be discussed, then it can’t be in a constructive and loving manner. this is just completely false. and that generalization pisses me off. certainly people like kirk cameron help to propigate this stereotype, but that doesn’t make it a universal truth.
as well, steve, when paul preached to the areopagus, he didn’t just encourage people to reach out to a god that wasn’t far away. he admonished them for what they had done wrong, and he mentioned that judgment was at hand. that doesn’t quite sound like the message you talked about. certainly paul was encouraging a people who were overtly spiritual to reach for the one, true god. but he wasn’t just saying “go on, you’re pretty close.” in fact, what he said seemed to say the opposite.
“And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else…Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man’s design and skill. In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead.”
that sounds like much more than just an encouraging discussion about spirituality. it sounds like someone meeting a group of people where they were at, but then correcting their errors. i mean, he straight up said, “the way you worship god is completely wrong, and if you think we are his children, then you should get with the program. jesus is coming back.”
we need to proceed in action, because this is what christ has called us to. but proceeding from action seems to imply that there is somewhere we are supposed to start. and i think the message that we are all fallen, and jesus is coming back (and i don’t mean in a kirk cameron, left behind, rapture-ready sense, so please DON’T READ THAT INTO THIS POST) is kinda where we start, and then we take that message and integrate it into how we live. that’s how the sermon on the mount is applicable. that is why jesus says he has come to fulfill the law. he isn’t just giving us new commands to fulfill the law. HE IS the fulfillment of the law.
as the saying goes, orthodoxy influences orthopraxy, and that influences worship.
November 3rd, 2006 at 1:06 am
It is easy to rip this guy because you don’t feel comfortable using his method. Sure, it looks sort of snobby. But the truth is that many people are coming to a knowledge of Jesus. There is no one ‘right’ method of evangelism. Plus, the work of salvation is the work of the Holy Spirit and the Spirit moves in people’s hearts in all sorts of ways. Most of us should be convicted that this guy is sharing truth with so many people so boldly while we all sit on our computers ripping him in blog comments.
American society has moved to a very ‘lovey’ culture where everyone is worried about offending others. The church is moved in much the same direction tailoring truth to make it seem fit for those far from God. Too many churches are so afraid of offending that they have watered down the faith. God’s wrath is spoken of more in the Bible than his love. The point of the law in Scripture is clear…it points to our utterly inability to live up to God’s righteousness. The law has always been meant to be our guide to the coming Christ who would make our status before God right, because of his sacrifice, not our works (which includes people trying to be loving). The appropriate response to God, I think, is a mix. We repent and understand and acknowledge our failure to meet God’s standard (aka - Way of the Master) and then we live a life filled with love, reflecting the love shown us (aka - Popular emergent faith). It is a both/and not an either/or.
November 3rd, 2006 at 2:48 pm
It is not so much the method that I have a problem with (though going up to people and talking to them out of the blue isn’t the BEST way to do things). It’s more the content of the message. Just straight up telling someone that they’re going to hell out of nowhere doesn’t really help. Certainly, people should know the truth and the gospel. However, I don’t know if they need to be hearing something in that manner.
November 3rd, 2006 at 10:12 pm
Wow. This is just wow. What a bunch of douchebags. And seriously… those kids he is talking to are obviously actors, right?
I go to Mars Hill church with Rob and this guy has no idea what Rob is really all about… if he did there wouldn’t be the need to take such an underhanded pot-shot. How ridiculous.
- Jack in Michigan.
November 4th, 2006 at 12:52 am
Jack, is that how Rob would want you to be talking? Calling names like that? I know he is not teaching that.
November 4th, 2006 at 1:00 am
A couple more thoughts…
Whoever runs this blog needs to remove that Captain Emergent comment. It is rude and uncaring, very unChristlike, and plain inconsiderate to a multitude of hurting people, including Ted’s wife and kids.
Secondly, how come so many people are defending ‘love’ against ‘law’ but tearing Way of the Master down? It sounds pretty hypocritical to me.
November 4th, 2006 at 9:31 am
This post got…weird.
November 4th, 2006 at 6:50 pm
Captain Emergent’s comment has been removed. I echo Brenton’s thoughts, Jack. As someone who knows Rob personally, I can say that he would be disapointed that Mars Hill is represented by your poor choice of words. I understand your frustration, but it needs to be communicated with a bit more civility and less name-calling.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:20 am
wow! look what I miss when I’m away with family in Hawaii for ten days….glad I was gone….
thanks for posting this..
November 11th, 2006 at 9:11 pm
So guys, show me all of the Bible verses where sinners are lead in a sinner’s prayer.
After you’ve read the whole Bible without finding one, you may remember several verses that show prophets and apostles preaching about transgression of the law, judgment, and a call to repentance and faith.
You may also find that, although the prphets and apostles were faithful in their preaching, the vast majority of the time they were ignored, mocked, or persecuted for it.
Now, find out how many times the word “love” appears in the book of Acts (The book that records the most conversions to Christ, and has many Gospel presentations in it).
If you don’t read your Bibles, don’t bother responding… This message isn’t for you.
December 4th, 2006 at 11:38 pm
No matter what any of us may want it to be, the precedent set in all of scripture is:
LAW TO THE PROUD, AND GRACE TO THE HUMBLE!!!
Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
December 18th, 2006 at 10:14 pm
Why does everyone have to agrue with one another and claim who is a “real” christian and who isn’t? Doesn’t that sound a little like the problems going on during the middle ages and the results were death, massive killings, and condeming people to hell? I thought thats why the “real” christians left the “bad” church (Catholicism)?
If we were to follow the traditional conversative view on the bible, we mite as well go out and kill every person who has every sinned on the planet, ooo wait thats all of us…i guess that wouldnt work right? I think I recall someone talking against this kind of action. (John
Why is it that a PERSON disagrees with another PERSON and then says this PERSON is not teaching what the bible says but I (another PERSON) will tell you the correct way? What good does this do? The topic of context or original language or background does not even come up. The bible isn’t about a group of white peoples interuptation on the bible.
Need I remind you that people,CHRISTIANS, have murdered people in the name of Jesus because they disagreed on interuptation and what not. We all have our own interuptations,so lets get ride of that and stop condeming people and get to the real subject at hand… being transformed by Jesus/studying the bible its in original language, the ideas/customs that Jesus would have believed in and followed instead of preaching on ideas that are only hundreds of years old (The sinners pray asking Jesus into my heart for example).
I often wonder if actions like these are the results of ones emotional problems/pride.
December 18th, 2006 at 10:15 pm
John 8 was the verse i used for referense haha, sorry bout the smiley i dont know why it did that
Peace
December 19th, 2006 at 4:14 pm
sean,
i just want to say that you completely misrepresented the conservative view of the bible. just like many outside of evangelicalism, you seem to misunderstand the view that conservatives have. it is nowhere near as rigid as you, and many others, make it out to be.
December 23rd, 2006 at 7:54 am
I gotta be honest , the “bullhorn guy” clip makes me mad. Would I find this dvd under the “new age” section of a ever money hungry christian bookstore? It sounds like Rob Bell has been listening to a stack of Beatles albums, ’cause after all, “all you need is love”. Friel pretty much rips apart Bell’s clip so I won’t go into that. But what amazes me is what Bell dosn’t say. When Jesus says to Mary, “your sins are forgiven” “GO SIN NO MORE!!!!!!” That last bit, why leave that out? Bell was quoting out of James about loving each other. They were already saved! No need there to tell them about sin. All I know is that “His sheep know His voice” Do you?
Bless you, Matt:-)
January 12th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
I’m not quite sure if Friel should have just come out and blasted Rob Bell. However, Todd is right on! People need to see their sin for what it is, “exceedingly sinful” so that they will appreciate the Gospel Message of Jesus to save them. People don’t need to to “say a sinner’s prayer” and then they’re in. True repentance and faith are needed. Way of the Master is freakin’ awesome and it’s changed my life. People need to be told the truth in love of course, and that is what he does. I believe Bell is probably making tons of “false converts.” Sad…
January 26th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
The people who are mad don’t understand the Biblical principals behind using law to the proud and grace to the humble. If you find the above video intriguing, offensive, or blasphemous, don’t call it so till you’ve watched “Hell’s Best Kept Secret” and studied the Biblical concepts from your Bible.
January 27th, 2007 at 9:16 pm
This guy refers to Jesus preaching about hell. Our pastor on Sunday just pointed something very interesting about the times Jesus warns people of hell. His warnings come at times when he is surrounded by people who think they know it all ready. His warnings are spoken to the “righteous” not the unrighteous. Check it out in scripture. Jesus doesn’t preach hell to the “sinners”, he preaches it to the “Godly”.
January 30th, 2007 at 8:33 am
What components definition includes a healthy way of life? Whether it is necessary to add in food of the additive? WBR LeoP
April 27th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Todd Friel of wayofthemasterradio.com discusses sharing the Gospel especially in the face of so many trendy preachers who try to water down the Gospel into a mere therapy or “relational” message without actually showing how & why a person needs to repent & believe & what happens if they don’t.
Todd also produced an excellent response to Rob Bell’s “Bullhorn Guy”. This video presentation is an excellent example of how to present the Gospel. (see presentation within the full article)
Listen to the 22 minute audio by following this link:
http://thekingdomcome.com/gospel_support
April 28th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
Found your site by typing in “errors of way of the master” in google. Why was I searching for that? Because I was wondering if anybody else had seen what I had seen.
I loved them at first. Then I started listening to their radio show podcast regularly. Slowly, it became very clear to me that they are exploiting “sinners” like a circus displays a sideshow. And as for sharing the truth in love, well… (the love was non-existent).
To hold the truth in arrogance and with such contempt looks as bad to me as not holding the truth at all.
They are doing more harm than good. I’m glad there are others who see it too.
May 4th, 2007 at 10:31 pm
Thanks for the spam, Roderick.
Good to hear from you Mary. Thanks for sharing.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Jesus said that the world would know that we were Christians by the way we love EACH OTHER. Maybe I’m missing something, but that doesn’t seem to be the way the world know’s “Christians.” If we can’t show them that we love each other and got stop arguing and debating against each other, why should they want to follow that way? And if your earthly father was always letting you know what a miserable person you are and that you deserved to rot in hell, would you want to have a relationship with him. Jesus is also the one Who said that if we humans knew how to give good gifts to our children,well I hope you get the point. I believe Jesus wanted us to understand that it was not the fear of hell and not being “good enough” that would ultimately drive us to the Father’s heart, into His lap… rather, it’s the knowledge of His love for us inspite of our inherent shortcomings. Sure, I definitely don’t want to go to hell, but I can’t stand the thought of so many people not really wanting to go to heaven b/c they think of an eternity with a God that’s been made out to be this big, angry, cold, fuddy-duddy by all of “His” religious leaders. It’s funny, I can’t recall one story in the Bible where Jesus showed anger toward any person or group other than the religious leaders of that day. And Jesus said that to see Him was to see the Father. God didn’t send His son to condemn it, the Spirit does the convicting… so stop and think about that, where does that lead to our part? I am so glad that I get to know of the Father’s Love and Goodness and Mercy and Kindness. I’m not saying there’s no judgement, I just don’t think that it’s the answer to the big gaping hole in most people’s heart.
January 2nd, 2008 at 6:08 pm
I thought this was an excellent, accurate, and very logical presentation of the gospel that even an idiot or a fool could understand.
April 2nd, 2008 at 7:12 am
I find it ironic how people like this always refer to God’s law as the 10 commendments, as if that’s what Jesus, the Pharisees, and Paul were always talking about… as opposed to the Torah.
April 6th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
the whole 4 doctor thing is really missing the point. at some point we may have to be any one of the 4 doctors depending on the situation. also, it’s interesting that the ‘doctor’ that he chooses to be the best one is called ‘dr. reason’. the problem i have with this is that these methods of evangelism are all about reason, logic and arguments to convince someone of the gospel. not that those things are wrong, but these people totally miss out on the work of the Holy Spirit. if you look at how Jesus preached the good news he demonstrated the Kingdom and then told people about it and then let them respond. so this whole arguing people into heaven just doesn’t cut it. we’re not supposed to be business men for God when it come to salvation.
i could go on…..
May 15th, 2008 at 4:58 am
I assume you understood it very well then Mark.
April 24th, 2009 at 7:45 am
Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel 1 Corinthians 9:16
Woe - great sorrow or distress
He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Mark 6:15
Commandment from Jesus
If I were doing this on my own initiative, I would deserve payment. But I have no choice, for God has given me this sacred trust.
1 Corinthians 9:17
It’s not an option to not preach the gospel
You may say you may not be ready, or you may not know enough, but when paul was converted:
At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God
Acts 9:20
You may say, I’m comfortable just reaching my own friends, why can’t I just reach my own family and the people i make friends with, why do i have to go out to other people?
Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 1 Corinthians 9:19
and
Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him?
And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him?
And how can they hear about him without someone preaching to them?
Romans 10:13-15
Preach - means to proclaim
Recap:
Jesus commanded it
Bible says to preach the gospel, so do it
You don’t have any excuses, you start to tell other people right when you are saved (example Paul)
Don’t stay in your comfort zone
Staying in your comfort means: not reaching as many as possible
If we know the good we ought to do and we do not do it, it is sin. James 4:17
The greatest sin we could ever commit is, we will see a whole world full of lost people and they are headed straight for hell and we will not give them the Jesus Christ they desperately need.
It breaks my heart to see people pass by that don’t know Jesus and they’re headed straight for hell, and we know it, yet we won’t tell them? You don’t tell them about Jesus because you don’t want to be punished, you don’t tell them because of a reward, you do this because Jesus told us to do it and that should be good enough. BUT here’s the key right here, LOVE, you FELT God’s love, Christians have felt it, you don’t want to share it to them JUST BECAUSE. You share it to them BECAUSE you love them. Someone said to me once, but do you REALLY love them, deep down. I say yes, how can I not, God molded each person, he created them, they have different colour eyes, and are different in their heart, and have different problems, and cry for different reasons. They’re people that God loves. They have souls, what worth can you put on a soul?
So question do you love those people? Do you care about them? Do you care enough to do something about it? because if you don’t, you don’t care. You go and tell people because you love them. I hope Christians think about the love they have for those they do not know.
May 12th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
This debate ended like three year ago (Sean Cannon well said, from what I read), but I’d like to add that Todd Friel and Rob Bell are just on different sides of the goofball coin when it comes to presentation. Friel is a dork and Bell is a hipster dufus. The difference is that Friel is actually trying to share the Gospel, while Bell doesn’t seem to be too interested in the Gospel. Bell seems more interested in saying stuff that sounds really profound and hip, but is either empty human wisdom, or just plain false. He promotes his own brand of universalism, and then caps it off with a really superficial moral asceticism.
Now this is good for a laugh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9XorvaC4qs